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The Petition

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นายกรัฐมนตรีแห่งประเทศไทย / รัฐมนตรีตรวจคนเข้าเมืองแห่งประเทศไทย

Prime Minister of Thailand / Minister of immigration of Thailand

หัวหน้ากองตรวจคนเข้าเมืองแห่งประเทศไทย / หนังสือพิมพ์ในประเทศ และต่างประเทศและหน่วยงานสื่อ

Head of the immigration of Thailand / Domestic and Foreign Newspapers and media agencies.

Latest news: TM30 should be revised. Continue to sign….

12 September 2019:

 

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We just started signatures today on 28 July 2019. Some people are scared… There is nothing illegal to express your opinion. Information on website is encrypted and protected. SIGN TO HELP OTHER EXPATS AND THEIR FAMILIES INCLUDING THAI LANDLORDs. Your information will not be shared with the Thai authorities or any agency. Thanks.

(English is following – See the 100+ comments at the end of this page)

กลุ่มตัวแทนชาวต่างชาติจากทั่วประเทศไทยต้องการที่จะร้องเรียนต่อรัฐบาลไทยด้วยความเคารพในเรื่องกฎหมายการเข้าเมืองและการบังคับใช้กฎหมาย เราเป็นชุมชนชาวต่างชาติที่มีขนาดใหญ่มากโดยส่วนใหญ่อาศัยอยู่อย่างสงบสุขและในลักษณะที่ปฏิบัติตามกฎหมายในประเทศที่เรารัก พวกเราหลายคนมีคู่สมรสเป็นคนไทย คู่ชีวิตเป็นคนไทยและบุตรคนไทย เรามีส่วนในอนาคตของประเทศไทยและเศรษฐกิจของประเทศไทยไม่ว่าจะเป็นการทำงาน การเกษียณอายุ หรือการสนับสนุนองค์กรอาสาสมัครท้องถิ่น และระดับชาติ และการกุศลอื่น ๆ

เราต้องการเปิดการเจรจากับเจ้าหน้าที่ เพื่อดูความเป็นไปได้สำหรับทางเลือกในทางปฏิบัติมากขึ้นและใช้เวลาน้อยลงในการใช้กฎหมายพระราชบัญญัติคนเข้าเมือง พ.ศ. 2522 เราหวังว่าจะนำเสนอข้อเสนอแนะที่จะเป็นประโยชน์ต่อทั้งชาวต่างชาติที่ดิ้นรนเพื่อให้สอดคล้องกับความหลากหลายและกฎระเบียบที่สับสน และประเทศเองโดยการตัดเทปสีแดงและพัฒนาความเข้าใจระหว่างประเทศไทยและชาวต่างชาติที่อาศัยอยู่ในประเทศไทย เราเชื่อในประเทศที่ยอดเยี่ยมแห่งนี้ มีความสัมพันธ์ที่ดีกับคนไทยทุกคน และต้องการมีส่วนร่วมในทุกวิถีทางเพื่อให้บรรลุเป้าหมายนี้

—–

A representative group of expats from across Thailand wishes to respectfully petition the Thai government on the question of immigration law and enforcement practices. Together we constitute a very large foreign community, the great majority of whom live peacefully and in a law-abiding manner in the country that we love. Many of us have Thai spouses, Thai partners and Thai children. We contribute to Thailand’s future and its economy, either working, in retirement, or by supporting local and national voluntary organisations and other charitable causes.

We would like to open a dialogue with the authorities, to see whether it is possible for alternative, more practical and less time-consuming ways of applying the 1979 Law on immigration to be found. We hope to put forward suggestions that would benefit both those expats struggling to comply with the multiple and confusing regulations, and the country itself by cutting down on red tape, and improving understanding between Thailand and its foreign residents. We believe in this wonderful country, a thriving, positive association with all Thais and would like to contribute in any way that we can to achieve this goal.

Bangkok Post of 5 August 2019.

It’s everywhere, Richard Barrow, Reddit, Thaivisa, Pattaya News, The Thaiger, Facebook groups, etc.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-49470726

https://news.thaivisa.com/article/39938/immigration-chief-tm-30-law-is-outdated-and-needs-to-change

 

Changes to TM30, an easier visa and work permit system approved by Thai cabinet yesterday for foreign workers

Petition by,
Bogdan Ulmu
Test 2

The Reform Thai Immigration Letter / จดหมายปฏิรูปการตรวจคนเข้าเมืองไทย

Bangkok Post Editorial of 31 July 2019: https://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/1721595/tm30-a-shot-in-the-foot

(English is following)

ถึงรัฐบาลไทยและสำนักงานตรวจคนเข้าเมืองประเทศไทย

ทางเราเป็นกลุ่มตัวแทนชาวต่างชาติและชาวไทยที่อาศัยอยู่ในประเทศไทยกับคู่สมรสหรือคู่ชีวิตพร้อมด้วยบุตรคนไทย เราทำงานที่นี่ มีส่วนร่วมกับชุมชนและเศรษฐกิจของประเทศ เรารักประเทศไทยและพยายามอย่างที่สุดที่จะปฏิบัติตามกฎหมายไทย

แต่เมื่อไม่นานมานี้ กฎระเบียบใหม่ของสำนักงานตรวจคนเข้าเมืองได้สร้างปัญหาใหญ่กับชุมชนชาวต่างชาติในประเทศไทย แม้ว่าคนเหล่านี้บางส่วนจะไม่เคยมีปัญหากับเจ้าหน้าที่เลยก็ตาม

ตามมาตรา 37 นั้น ชาวต่างชาติที่พำนักอยู่ในประเทศไทยที่เดินทางไปต่างจังหวัดเกินกว่า 24 ชั่วโมง จะต้องรายงานตัวต่อสำนักงานตรวจคนเข้าเมือง และประเทศไทยมีถึง 76 จังหวัด หมายความว่า หากครูชาวต่างชาติที่อาศัยอยู่ในจังหวัดบุรีรัมย์ จะเดินทางไปจังหวัดสุรินทร์ช่วงสุดสัปดาห์ ครูคนนี้จะกลับมาสอนในเช้าวันจันทร์ไม่ได้ เพราะต้องไปรายงานตัวต่อสำนักงานตรวจคนเข้าเมือง แม้ว่าเขาจะอาศัยอยู่กับภรรยา (เจ้าบ้าน) และลูกก็ตาม และในกรณีนี้ภรรยา (เจ้าบ้าน) ก็จะต้องเดินทางไปรายงานตัวต่อสำนักงานตรวจคนเข้าเมืองพร้อมแบบฟอร์ม ตม.30 ด้วยเช่นกัน ทั้งๆ ที่ ทางสำนักงานตรวจคนเข้าเมืองก็มีบันทึกที่อยู่ของชาวต่างชาติทุกคนในไทย เพราะชาวต่างชาติจะต้องยื่นแจ้งที่อยู่ของตนด้วยแบบฟอร์มตม.47 อยู่แล้วหากพำนักอาศัยอยู่ในประเทศไทยเกินกว่า 90 วัน

เราเข้าใจเหตุผลของการยื่นแบบฟอร์มตม.47 เป็นอย่างดี และหลายคนก็ยินดีที่จะใช้วิธีรายงานตัวทางออนไลน์ ซึ่งเป็นวิธีการที่ประเทศส่วนใหญ่ในแถบตะวันตกนิยมใช้กัน และเราก็เข้าใจดีว่าชาวต่างชาติจะต้องยื่นขอต่ออายุวีซ่าแบบ ปี

ทั้งนี้ แบบฟอร์มตม.30 ไม่เคยถูกนำมาใช้อย่างจริงจังจนกระทั่งเมื่อปีพ..2561 แต่ขณะนี้มีชาวต่างชาติและชาวไทยหลายคนถูกโทษปรับเนื่องจากไม่ได้ยื่นแบบฟอร์มตม.30 เมื่อกลับจากต่างจังหวัดมาที่บ้าน โดยระเบียบนี้มีผลบังคับใช้กับนักท่องเที่ยวด้วยเช่นกัน แต่ทางโรงแรมจะเป็นผู้ดำเนินการยื่นแบบฟอร์มเอง

ในกรณีเช่นนี้ หากว่านักท่องเที่ยวพักในที่พักของ AirBNB จะต้องทำอย่างไร หรือในกรณีที่ชาวต่างชาติพักอาศัยในบ้านที่มีเจ้าของชาวไทย หรือพักอาศัยกับครอบครัวของตนเองที่เป็นชาวไทยและเป็นเจ้าของบ้าน ชาวต่างชาติคนนั้นๆ จะต้องทำอย่างไร

ขณะนี้ มีนักท่องเที่ยวจำนวนมากเริ่มที่จะท้อใจกับระเบียบการยื่นแบบฟอร์มตม.30 ใหม่นี้

กลุ่มผู้ลงนามในคำร้องนี้ ต้องการที่จะเห็นการเปลี่ยนแปลงกฎหมายซึ่งจะนำไปสู่การยกเลิกระเบียบการยื่นแบบฟอร์มตม.30 โดยสิ้นเชิง พระราชบัญญัติคนเข้าเมืองนั้นมีมาตั้งแต่ปีพ..2522 และเราเชื่อว่ากฎหมายสามารถเปลี่ยนแปลงและมีวิวัฒนาการเพื่อให้สอดคล้องกับเทคโนโลยีในปัจจุบันได้

เราเชื่อเป็นอย่างยิ่งว่าแบบฟอร์มตม.30 นั้นค่อนข้างล้าสมัย และก่อให้เกิดปัญหาต่างๆ มากมายที่ไม่เคยเกิดมาก่อนในอดี

ทั้งนักท่องเที่ยวและชาวต่างชาติที่อาศัยอยู่ในประเทศไทยนั้น เมื่อเดินทางมาถึงประเทศไทย ก็จะถูกตรวจที่สนามบินหรือตามจุดตรวจคนเข้าเมืองอยู่แล้ว และเทคโนโลยีที่ถูกนำมาใช้ก็มีการพัฒนาให้ดีขึ้นเรื่อยๆ ฉะนั้น การยื่นรายงานที่อยู่อาศัยด้วยตนเองโดยใช้กระดาษแบบฟอร์มนั้นจึงไม่ใช่วิธีการที่มีประสิทธิภาพอีกต่อไป

นอกจากนี้ การยื่นแบบฟอร์มตม.30 ยังไม่ได้ช่วยลดหรือกำจัดการก่อการร้ายแต่อย่างใด แต่กลับเพิ่มภาระให้กับเจ้าบ้านคนไทยซึ่งจะต้องเป็นผู้รายงานการเข้าพักของชาวต่างชาติ

ทั้งแบบฟอร์มตม.30 และ ตม.28 นั้นไม่มีประสิทธิภาพ เพราะสถานีตำรวจส่วนใหญ่ยังไม่เข้าใจและไม่ยอมรับแบบฟอร์มนี้ เนื่องจากไม่รู้ว่าเอกสารเหล่านี้คืออะไร แม้จะมีการระบุชัดเจนว่าสามารถยื่นแบบฟอร์มเหล่านี้ได้ที่สถานีตำรวจในพื้นที่ก็ตาม (ดูมาตรา 37 (4) ในพระราชบัญญัติคนเข้าเมือง) ดังนั้น เราคิดว่าน่าจะมีการเปลี่ยนแปลงมาตรา 37 และ 38 ในพระราชบัญญัติคนเข้าเมืองได้ในหลายจุด

เราขอยื่นคำร้องต่อรัฐบาลไทยด้วยความเคารพ เพื่อให้รัฐบาลปรับเปลี่ยนพระราชบัญญัติคนเข้าเมือง หรือกลับมาดำเนินการเหมือนช่วงก่อนปีพ..2561 ซึ่งไม่มีการบังคับใช้แบบฟอร์มตม.30 อย่างเข้มงวด โดยทางกลุ่มเราเชื่อว่าการบังคับใช้แบบฟอร์มตม.30 อย่างเข้มงวดนั้น มีแต่จะก่อให้เกิดปัญหา และท้ายที่สุดก็จะส่งผลให้การท่องเที่ยวในไทย รวมถึงการลงทุนจากต่างชาติตกต่ำลง และยังส่งผลต่อครอบครัวชาวไทยที่มีชาวต่างชาติเป็นสมาชิก คำร้องนี้จึงเป็นไปเพื่อผลประโยชน์ของประเทศไทยเช่นกัน

ในนามของชาวต่างชาติทุกคนที่อาศัยหรือมาเที่ยวในประเทศไทยอันเป็นที่รักยิ่งนี้ โปรดพิจารณาหนังสือฉบับนี้ในฐานะคำแนะนำและวิธีแก้ปัญหา ซึ่งเราเชื่อว่าปัญหานี้จะสร้างแรงกดดันจนนำไปสู่ผลเสียต่อเศรษฐกิจไทยในที่สุด

 

ขอแสดงความนับถือ

ขอในหลวงทรงพระเจริญยิ่งยืนนาน

 

ENGLISH VERSION

To:

The Royal Thai Government and the Royal Thai Police Immigration Bureau

We represent a group of foreign and Thai people who live in Thailand and are concerned about recent changes to immigration policy and practices. Many of us haveThai spouses or partners and Thai children. We work here, and contribute to the community and to the economy of the country. We love Thailand and we do our best to comply with local laws.

Recently, however, certain longstanding rules contained in the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 have been interpreted and applied in such a way as to cause huge problems for both Thai nationals and the foreign community, including those who have peaceably lived here for many years without ever causing problems for the Thai authorities.

Under Sections 37 and 38 of the Immigration Act, any foreigner who resides in Thailand and who visits another province for more than 24 hours must notify the Immigration Bureau or local police. But there are 76 provinces in Thailand. This means that, for example, if a foreign teacher lives in Buriram and decides to spend a weekend in nearby Surin, he or she cannot teach on Monday morning. Under present interpretation of the law, they must first report their return to the Immigration Bureau.The home owner, even if they stay with their family, must also re-notify the Immigration Bureau of the foreigner’s residence using the TM30 form within 24 hours.

Yet the Immigration Bureau already maintains records of all foreign residents’ addresses. Every foreigner must provide their address via the TM47 form when they reside in Thailand for more than 90 days.

When foreigners apply for a one-year visa extension, their address is also recorded.We completely understand the reasoning behind the TM47 and many have welcomed the online reporting, but the changes regarding the TM30 have created an additional unnecessary burden.

Prior to 2018, reporting temporary changes in location using the TM30 form had not been strictly enforced. But now foreigners and many Thai property owners are being fined for not having filed the TM30 form when the foreigner travels briefly to another province and returns to their residence.

For tourists and travellers staying at hotels, it is the duty of hotel managers to report foreigners to the Immigration Bureau. But what about staying with AirBnB owners, home stays, or even friends and relatives? Innocent Thai people and foreigners may not know that the home owner has to file a TM30 report every time a foreigner stays with them. Many travellers are becoming increasingly disheartened and frustrated with how the TM30 rules are now being applied.

Collectively, the people signing this petition would like to see the law changed, such that the TM30 form could be abolished altogether.

Although the Immigration Act has been in place since 1979, laws can change and evolve in line with modern technology. We strongly believe that the TM30 form is outdated and causes many problems that did not exist in the past. Nowadays, tourists and expats arriving in Thailand are screened at airports and other points of entry using modern systems. Technology has advanced such that reporting addresses on paper, in person, appears inefficient and counterproductive. The use of the TM30 form does nothing to minimize terrorism, but places an excessive burden on Thai landlords to report their foreign guests.

Furthermore, the TM28 form (notification of temporary change of address) is ineffective as most police stations do not know what it is and often won’t accept it, even though Section 37 (4) of the Immigration Act plainly says it can be submitted to a local police station.

We believe sections 37 and 38 of the Immigration Act of Thailand could be modified to better reflect the purpose of the Act, and

respectfully appeal to the Royal Thai Government to consider making positive changes to it, or returning to the way it was previously applied.

We believe that the recent interpretation and strict enforcement of the TM30 form only serves to create a larger problem that will ultimately lead to a massive downturn in tourism and foreign investment, and negatively affect Thai families who live with foreigners.

This is our solemn plea on behalf of every signatory residing in or travelling within our beloved Thailand, our friends and families. Please accept this letter as a suggestion to resolve the TM30 issue, which we believe could otherwise negatively influence the economy and image of Thailand.

Long Live The King.

Yours respectfully

[Your name]

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    Updates

    Richard Barrow Punished? Reform Thai Immigration Petition Updates

    Richard Barrow had NOTHING to do with this petition. We believe he is a great ambassador of Thailand for tourism and its culture. Yesterday, he posted something scary. We have nothing to do with him and wish him the best.

    Gepostet von Richard Barrow in Thailand am Freitag, 9. August 2019

     

    Meeting Korat Immigration Reform Thai Immigration Petition Updates

     

    Tomorrow, Wednesday 7th. Let’s see what happens.

    3,000 supporters and going up Reform Thai Immigration Petition Updates

    There will be a meeting in Bangkok on 15th August to talk about TM30. Tm30 is just the beginning. Please trust us, we want to help Thailand AND expats living here. We all have to gain and reforms are necessary.

    Bangkok Post Editorial Uncategorized

    WOW. In less than 1 week, we made waves.

    https://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/1721595/tm30-a-shot-in-the-foot

    Signatures Reform Thai Immigration Petition Updates

    We just started signatures. Some people are scared… There is nothing illegal to express your opinion. Information on website is encrypted and protected. SIGN TO HELP OTHER EXPATS AND THEIR FAMILIES.

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    Testimonials

    Hello, I have been married to a Thai lady and lived in Thailand for about 15 years. We have lived in our own property for all of this time. About 18 months ago a friend of mine came to stay for a few days, this is something he has done for a number of years with no issues. On this occasion he went to immigration to request a 30 day extension he was told to fetch my wife to the immigration centre so she could be fined.
    At this time we had never even heard of a TM30 form and we were unaware we had to inform immigration.
    We took my wife to immigration which is 180km round trip, the officer was rude and very intimidating towards my wife nearly bringing her to tears. We payed the fine and left.
    I have since told my friends and family that we are sorry but we don’t want you visiting us, before we used to have many people staying visiting us but I am not prepared to travel 180km to just fill a form in every time someone visits. I have told my friends the reasons of this and the antiquated rules and regulations been forced upon decent citizens, being either Thai or expat and who have been here many years, following all the rules and jumping through all the hoops, never been in trouble and contribute to the economy. I have spent well over 20 million baht in the time I have been here and now I feel very unwanted in this country I have tried to make my home.
    A couple of further points.
    1. Myself and some other expat friends who used to travel around Thailand for short holiday breaks are no longer doing this if we have to make another 180km trip to immigration every time we go away. Certainly not helping the hotel and resort areas especially at this time of falling tourist numbers.
    2. I have tried to do the TM30 on line but this has so far been impossible. I will visit Korat immigration to see if they can help me do this, that’s if they accept on line reporting.
    3. If this incessant reporting of expats or tourist whereabouts is to check where the bad people are, is immigration that naive to believe that any undesirable person will ever bother to do a TM30, 90 day reporting etc.

    The enforcement of outdated immigration policies are becoming ridiculous and making me and I am sure many other law abiding people feel unwanted in this country. Thailand is not the country I loved when I first came here. I love my Thai wife and family so I shall be staying here for as long as I can.

    Roy M

     

              ==============================================================
    2561 (or last year, 2018)
    ผมเป็นเจ้าบ้าน เพื่อนฝรั่งมาพักที่บ้านผม วันที่ 22 สค. แม่ผมไปแจ้ง ตม. วันที่ 22 สค. เช่นกัน วันที่ 24 สค ฝรั่ง เดินทางไปท่องเที่ยวซึ่งผมไม่ได้ถามว่าเขาเที่ยวที่ไหนบ้าง ฝรั่งเข้ามาพักที่บ้านผมวันที่ 1 กย และวันที่ 1 กย ผมเดินทางไป ตม. เพื่อแจ้ง การเข้าพักของต่างด้าว อีกครั้ง เจ้าหน้าที่ผู้ชาย(ที่สาขาพรอมเมนาด้า) ดูเอกสารขาออกเอกสารต่างๆ ที่นำไปให้แล้วบอกว่าเคยแจ้งเข้าพักแล้วนี่ วันที่ 22 สค. ผมบอกว่าไช่ครับ แต่เขาเดินทางไปท่องเที่ยว แล้วกลับมาพักอีกวันที่ 1 กย นี้ พนักงานดูเอกสารแล้วบอกว่า ท่องเที่ยวในไทย ไม่ต้องมาแจ้ง (แต่ในหัวข้อ “คำถามที่พบบ่อย” ท่านบอกให้แจ้ง เอาไงคับ) สุดท้ายผมได้ ใบตอบกลับ ลงวันที่ 22 สค (วันเดิม)
    ปัญหาเกิดขึ้นตอนที่เพื่อนฝรั่งของผมไปต่อวีซ่า เขาโดนปรับ 1600 บาท โดย ตม.ให้เหตุผลว่า “ไม่ได้แจ้งเข้า” เฮ้ย! อะไรกัน ก็วันที่ 1 กย ผมไปแจ้งแล้ว แล้วพนักงานบอกเองว่า เที่ยวในไทยไม่ต้องแจ้ง ใหม่
    ช่วยตอบด้วยครับ ว่าเพื่อนผมสมควรโดนปรับหรือไม่ และถ้าไม่สมควร จะไปรับเงินคืนได้ที่ไหน (ห้ามบอกว่าไม่ได้)
    ** ดูกล้องวงจรปิดได้นะครับ วันที่ 1 เวลาบ่าย 3 โมง ตม. สาขา พรอมเมนาด้า เชียงใหม่ **–

     

              ==============================================================

    Hi.

    I am a highly qualified chartered engineer from the UK living in Thailand and working in ASIA.

    I have invested in a shop £15k, improved inlaws property, built house (£4 million) and investing in durian farm.

    I have correct visa but still have issues with immigration.

    I travel extensively in ASIA and when I return, even with the visa they inspect every page and still ask me questions like :

    “Do you have a visa”.

    “Where are you staying”.

    As for the TM30 I fail to see any benefit from it in Thailand at all. Any terrorist is not going to be worried about filing a TM30. We fill n a TM6 at airport with home address so why can this not be used instead of TM30 within 24 hours ?

    In addition to this there is so much inconsistency. I tried to register online as my children and friends plan t visit us, but did not get username password.

    I called Prachinburi and they said go t show them issue as every time we try to register it now says already registered.

    We drove all the way (75km) showed them, only t be incorrectly informed online is only for hotel or resort, even though we showed them the form which states “hotel/resort/house”.

    I also think Thailand is worse than other countries with respect to residency. Most countries offer permanent residency after a period of time. Even in UK you can get indefinite leave of stay, then if you wish permanent residency.

    Thai government are making it really difficult not only for genuine long term “residents” but now also for repeat tourists/travellers.

    DM.

     

    ===============================================================

    Just a bit of a heads up info! Been living in Bkk for 28 years! Had a non O on and off for years, but went to renew at Chaeng Wattana yesterday! Have heard about the TM 30 but never bothered with it until now! On applying for my non O extension, the first question they asked was, “Do you have a TM 30??” I pleaded ignorant and said I had never heard of it! The IO must have been in a good mood and started to process my extension, but in the meantime she sent me to register my TM 30! It was chaos! Even though I got my number 2 hours previous, there was 248 in front of me! Standing room only! No chance to sit! I went back to my IO and told her no chance to get my TM 30 today due to so many people! She then gave me a ticket number 130, and as they were up to 340, I managed to push in and explain that I made a mistake and waiting at wrong gate! She allowed me in, much to the disgust of 300 waiting people and after 15 mins, I had my TM 30, but not until I had paid my 800 baht fine! Once I had the TM 30 was able to go back to the IO and complete my extension of Non 0!! Moral of the story is get your TM 30 before applying for visas and expect queues!

    Taken from Dave, on a Facebook group.

    ===========================================================

    My wife and I went for my extension to based on marriage 2 weeks ago..he ask me went I got to Buriram I said 7 years ago..were you not out the country yes wife and I were in Canada returned April 27..he fined her 800 baht for not doing the tm30..

    D.

    ========================================================

    I have yellow book ( tabian baan)
    I think by common sense the book is an evidence of my residency with house details .
    However my wife pays fine 800 thb every time once we go for extension visa each year.

    W.

    ===================================================

    One of the main issues is a lack of consistency across all provincial offices. The question needs to be asked of the top officials- do the individual offices need to follow the correct procedures, or are they able to apply their own interpretation of the rules/laws? We all know why they do apply their own interpretations- those little brown envelopes…For example, Samut Prakan immigration said no need to do TM 30 when returning from overseas if you are going back to your residential address that’s already on record with immigration, and if you wrote that same address on the tm 6. Then I go to Jomtien office, and they fine me/my wife 1600 baht when we followed the same process there (after already attending the office a few months prior and doing the tm30 and change of address forms etc). When we said – ‘But Samut Prakan immigration told us no need for tm30 when arrive back in Thailand because we come to same address and did tm6’, Jomtien immigration’s reply – ‘Here we do different.’ It’s blatant corruption, and now with what’s going on in Thai parliament regarding it, it’s a good time to seek uniformity with immigration processes across all provinces. All government officials are presently very worried about the ‘c’ word… It’s this lack of consistency and different interpretations to suit different offices, that so many expats find infuriating, imo.

    J.

    Petition Comments

    The name of people that sign this petition will not be revealed to immigration. But we do not want fake signature and the site is encrypted. You are safe.

    • John Paul Riva

      Sign me up!!!!!

      Reply
    • Mark

      It take only time nothing else.

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        It is surely not something to help terrorism. Terrorist won’t file these forms.

        Reply
    • Zar Nee Phyo

      please sing me up

      Reply
    • Mendel Norbert

      Please Reform

      Reply
    • Peter Kelly

      Just a reminder to everyone signing the petition… please be respectful in your comments. The frustration everyone is feeling is justified, but the petition stands a much better chance of being taken seriously if the comments are mature and look towards a solution instead of just complaining. Being rude about it is not going to help.

      Reply
    • Reform

      Nicely said.

      Reply
    • Jack Harris

      If the Thailand government and immigration will make the necessary changes to the new laws and create a warm and welcoming environment, the one expatriates have enjoyed for 40 years, I will consider returning to live in Thailand, investing my retirement income to the Thai community and economy and live the remainder of my life in peace with my Thai fiancee. Until then, I will not consider returning, to live under a repressive environment. I am now back home in the USA.

      Thailand, you are destroying 40 years of westerners and their Thai families lives. It is time to change.

      Reply
    • John

      As a foreigner who works in Thailand, I strongly agree to make things easier and more friendly for international community living in Thailand. It would be great if the law could be cancelled and as well the 90 day report!

      Reply
      • MarC

        Even i have a daughter Which i love so much , but i will not return To thailand , surin immigration always changed the law according to there mood, i investet too alot in this country but we are lower then a dog in this country . Bye
        Im in vietnam now . I love it.

        Reply
    • Tudchaphan Chodchoiy

      My fiancee was made to feel like a criminal in Thailand and was stopped by immigration and threatened with arrest. He is American and feared Thailand no longer wanted or respected expatriates. He went home to the USA where he felt safe. He no longer felt safe in Thailand.

      Reply
    • Robert Duffy

      Complaining about the TM 30 is pointless! Recommending it be eliminated is also pointless. Asking that it be ignored or not enforced is redigilious. Suggesting ways the law can be officially amended to accommodate those living here legally on a Non-Imm O VISA is the best approach. There are several typos in the English translations.

      Reply
      • Thomas Wagner

        I fully agree. I have been living and working in Thailand permanently for the last 26 years and I am married to a government official. I discussed this petition and the content of this letter with my wife and we both agree, it should be changed according to the recommendations of Mr. Robert Duffy. Some points regarding foreign investments and other points be better left out. The Yellow Tabian Baan could be added. Thank you. Thomas Wagner . German. Nakhon Ratchasima.

        Reply
        • Brent

          I think the yellow book is possible in areas like Bangkok but seems to be non-existent in other areas??? I have blue book for my property but my farang name is not listed in the book.

          Reply
          • Robert B.

            Foreigners can not be in blue book unless they have permanent residency.
            The yellow book is available everywhere. It’s under a Thai law, however, for unknown reasons, each district can apply their own rules.
            If a district refuses to give you a yellow Ta bian baan for an irrelevant reason, you can ask the administrative court (often free) to enforce the law and get the yellow Ta bian baan. Read on http://www.thailawonline.com about it. Under property.

            Reply
    • John

      After seeing the recent petition for reform of the immigration rules in a Facebook group, I wanted to write an article to share my personal thoughts in this area in the hope that someone in the Thai government may take notice and see things from the perspective of the expat community and our ongoing exasperation with Thai immigration.

      I have lived and worked in Thailand for more than a decade as a teacher at one of the big international schools, naturally my profession contributes positively to Thai society by educating future generations. I have also volunteered in various capacities including raising funds for orphans, volunteer teaching and litter cleaning amongst a long list of charitable endeavours. I made a significant effort to become proficient in Thai language and integrate into Thai society. I pay a not-so-insignificant amount of tax each month and endeavour to comply with the immigration regulations. I would like to think these attributes make me beneficial, perhaps even an asset to the Thai economy and society, yet immigration treats me with suspicion, continually adding unnecessary bureaucracy in a way governments only do to track criminals, even referring to us as aliens in immigration paperwork. If we are genuinely not wanted here and only tolerated for what we can do for for Thailand without any consideration of what small things Thailand could do for us, then perhaps they should officially announce this unless of course the system is designed this way as a self serving racket to generate revenue. As much as I love Thailand I am now seriously considering moving on because of immigration, there are a number of countries that would appreciate my skill set and efforts.

      I believe that it is necessary to screen who is and is not allowed to enter the country. I believe that foreigners wanting to live and work here must be able to bring a skill set that is needed and not compete with the local populace for jobs. I believe that foreigners living here must be able to support themselves and not be a drain on society. I believe it is polite and respectful to make an effort to speak the local language to a basic level. These are all reasonable values many countries uphold in their immigrations policies. Many expats share immigrations desire for “good guys in bad guys out”. Yet the current procedures treat expats with suspicion and mistrust, the new head of immigrations even stated that it TM30 is required as foreigners are a threat to national security.

      Thai immigration differs from other countries not by the objectives of immigration policies but by the inefficient and ineffective procedures that attempt to achieve these objectives. The TM30 and the 90 day report being two examples of completely ineffective procedures that only insults the “good guys” by treating them like criminals and has no effect whatsoever on the real criminal “bad guys” who are not stupid enough to report their real address and simply bribe their way through staying here and outsmart immigration for what is in some cases decades.

      Personally I believe the whole system needs to be overhauled and the systems used by Singapore or Hong Kong used as a starting point. Foreigners applying to live and work here should be screened very thoroughly, even with an interview and a file created listing their documents, qualifications and other relevant information, if the foreigner leaves their job, changes jobs, visa type, leave the country and returns their file is simply updated without the need for mountains of paperwork, certifying documents again or leaving the country to apply for a new visa. Fines and penalties should only be applied to those people and employers not updating immigration with changes. Permanent residency could be granted after a reasonable amount of time gainfully employed and paying tax, it’s pointless to keep asking thoroughly screened people that have proven themselves with years in the workforce paying tax to keep producing the same onerous paperwork each 90 day/visa extension and would free up enormous amounts of time for immigration to focus on “bad guys”. Citizenship could then be granted after stringent but sensible conditions are met such as fluency in Thai and a few years residency.

      I believe that many of the immigration issues expats face have been overshadowed with mass tourism, expats are a tiny number compared to tourists, it’s easy to overlook us, one simple example being it necessary to queue up in a long line of tourists upon landing at the airport rather than being able to join the smaller Thai queue – it just doesn’t seem fair given we live, work and pay tax. It’s worth noting that HK and SG class visitors as residents or non-residents. HK and SG also grant residency after a number of years of contributing to the country with out some unjustified arbitrary fee of a years salary for most Thai people. It’s also true that Thai people living and working in uk are offered citizenship after 5 years and the process takes weeks not years. Immigration can be extremely beneficial for society if managed correctly, you only have to look at some of the biggest companies in Thailand to see contributions made by Chinese immigrants. Indeed if immigration treated the “good guys” better the calibre of the expats choosing to work in Thailand would improve.

      I would like to make it clear that this article is not intended to be derogatory about Thailand, we do not wish to challenge your authority or tell you how to run your country, just point out some facts and opinions from the expat perspective – people (not aliens) that live, work and have family here, love Thailand and call the country home and would very much like to become proud Thais. We think immigration could be reformed to more efficiently deliver “good guys in bad guys out”.

      Reply
      • Robert Duffy

        Well written and needs to be translated into Thai with the petition!

        Reply
        • Robert B.

          The petition is already in Thai. OK, I will try to translate this comment in Thai but we are overloaded and spent a lot for translation, changing server, etc. I personally worked 40 hours on this project. We got some funds but everything takes time.

          Reply
      • Chai-Hoon Mungkhalodom

        Very well written. I agreed with you if they don’t reform ( which unlikely they will) … don’t hesitate to move to other country and I believe they will welcome you with open hand.

        Reply
    • Norbert Neyer (IRG u. AB Systemworks)

      There will be economic surprises if the Thai nation
      foreigner-friendly, narrow-minded regulations so on.
      I know dozens of medium-sized companies that have already gone to Laos Chambodia, Vietnam and Malaysia. We are also superior!

      Reply
    • Richard

      As of January 2020 I will be leaving Thailand after living here for 7 years, paying rent to a Thai owner, buying many high dollar items and contributing to the medical, dental and many other service industries.
      The requirements and treatment have gone too far for me. As much as I enjoy living here, I am no longer feeling welcomed or appreciated. Mandatory money in the bank, not accepting my pension letter and upcoming mandatory insurance have gone to far too. I applied at the Royal Thai Consulate and was verified for everything and now the Thai Immigration will not accept these very same document.

      Reply
    • Magda Scholte

      Its unpractical rule for all tourists and landlords to comply with.
      It creates lots of negativity which isn’t necessary

      Reply
    • Lesley

      Perhaps someone can do a handout of this petition over a couple of week period by hanging out at Chaeng Wattana between 4:30 AM and 9:30 AM – would assist in getting the numbers up and feasibility of this venture. I have a sneaking suspicion that this will land no where but lets give it a shot!

      Reply
    • Mitch Atkins

      Agree

      Reply
      • Jason

        support

        Reply
    • Keith

      I’m married to a Thai wife and did my tm30 this year because imagration would not give me a exstension without it. Luckily I was able to do it myself and they fined me not landlord.
      What I find troubling is imagration has so much information about me and my address they have a hand drawn map of my home. They have photos of me and wife in every room. On the tm7 I put my address. They want a copy of my lease. And every 90 days I do a tm47 to report my address. And this last exstension in 2019 I had to get a copy of landlord’s id, blue book, and chanote.
      This tm30 within 24hrs is very expensive if I want to go for a small holiday to the beach or visit friends or wife’s family. With all the paperwork they have it is obvious where I live full time despite a small holiday.

      I tried to sign up for online tm30 as the posseser. 3 weeks ago and still waiting for username and password.

      Reply
      • Supicha Tiempitak

        Me too, very hard to get the username/password to report via online. They should provide more convenient way to us.

        Reply
    • Harold

      Thailand has always been strict and abusive with foreigners who do the paperwork and follow the rules. This same policy should be applied in other nations whose generosity has been abused by Thais. In the US for example, there are tens of thousands of Thai visa over-stayers working illegally. They all need to be jailed, fined and deported as would happen in Thailand. What laws Thailand has should be reciprocated. The world is too kind to Thais abroad.

      Reply
    • don dark

      delighted to see this initiative. we’re a farang couple retired here in 1998. moved all our money from Canada. We have always felt we (and our money) are welcomed here, except for many of the regulations which makes us feel like second-class citizens. I’d estimate we have spent 30 million baht, which must have contributed something to the Thai economy, especially to local businesses. If Thailand does not wake up to the benefits to the country from being a retirement hub and it it cannot see how we can see how the even the smiles are showing to be false. … well, I think it may be too late. If we were not in our late 70’s – we’d be gone like a shot.

      Reply
    • Wayne M

      I have my TM30 up-to-date with the Chiang Mai Immigration office, however I have found the whole process totally confusing because you get different responses every time you ask the same question. Here in Chiang Mai I’ve been told a number of times that this office doesn’t require new notification if you visit a place within the Kingdom and return to your normal home address. Thank heaven for that as there are many wonderful areas, towns, villages etc that I would love to see whilst I am living here, where I spend my money, supporting local Or not so local, Thai businesses and communities. If I had to report to Immigration with TM30 every time I spent a few days in another village, town or district, I’d cease spending my funds in them and stay in my rented home which I’ve given Immigration the details of.

      I’ve also been advised by CM Immigration that even if I go out of the country, I don’t have to update TM30 if I go back to the address I’ve notified them of previously. The only time I need to update TM30 with them is if I’ve been back to my home country and returned. This even after I’ve given the address on the TM6 when going through Immigration at the airport and then returning to the rented accommodation they already hold details for.

      Apart from the huge amount of resources Immigration need to task to take this repeat, same information they already hold, it is also a huge waste of natural resources handing in photocopies of passport pages, rental leases etc, that again they have multiple copies of.

      Hopefully there can be a resonable, consistent (across ALL Immigration Offices) 21st century solution to this 40 year old regulation that in its current state is confusing, unecessary and on the verge of crippling an industry the Kingdom relies on heavily (tourism) and which appears to be forcing long term expat residents to seriously look at packing up and leaving for less draconian places where they can move freely and spend their money.

      Reply
    • Jochen Schmitz

      I live in Thailand for more than 25 years and have a retirement allowance each time for 1 year.
      Immigration knows me long enough and not need to force me when I want to see a friend who lives in another province to report to the local Immigration.

      Reply
    • Patcharee

      เรียนเจ้าหน้าที่ที่เกี่ยวข้อง
      ดิฉันเป็นตัวแทนนายหน้า ซึ่งปล่อยเช่าคอนโด และช่วยเจ้าของบางท่านที่ไม่สะดวกไปแจ้งที่พักคนต่างด้าวด้วยตัวเองและบางท่านก็ชรามาก บางคนอยู่ต่างประเทศ การรายงานออนไลน์ระบบแย่มาก ไม่เคยไม่ได้การตอบการ การติดต่อเบอร์ Call center ก็ติดต่อไม่ได้เลย เวลาจะสอบถามข้อมูลแต่ละครั้งต้องไปถามที่ ตม แจ้งวัฒนะ ซี่งในปี 2562 ไม่ควรจะทำเช่นนั้น
      ปัญญาที่ประสบกับตัวเอง ลูกค้าย้ายเข้า 10 กรกฎาคม 2562 ไปแจ้ง ตม วันที่ 11 กรกฏาคม 2662 ตม ปรับ 800 วันเพราะลูกค้าเดินทางเข้ามาประเทศไทยตั้งแต่เดือนพฤษภาคม 2562 แต่ลูกค้าเพิ่งเข้ามาอยู่กับเราวันที่ 11 กรกฏาคม 2562 ต่อแจ้งว่าต้องให้กลับไปเอาสัญญามา ซึ่งก่อนเรามาแจ้ง เราแจ้งก็เช็ครายการเอกสารในหน้าเว็บไซด์ของ ตม และพยายามโทรมาสอบถาม 1000 ครั้งก็ไม่มีใครรับสาย โทรไปสำนักงานตำรวจแห่งชาติ ก็ได้รับคำตอบที่น่าชืนใจว่า เป็นหน้าที่ของคนไทยที่ต้องไปสอบถามที่ ตม เอง ถ้าติดต่อทางโทรศัพท์ไม่ได้
      ลูกค้าต่างชาติทุกคนเซ็นสัญญาเช่า 1 ปี ไม่ทราบว่าทำไมต้องแจ้งทุกครั้งที่เดินทางแม้แต่ไปเที่ยวต่างจังหวัด ถ้าเราเอาสัญญาเช่าไปให้คุณดู คุณก็ควรลงบันทึกไว้ว่า ต่างชาติคนนี้อยู่ที่คอนโดนี้หรือบ้านหลังนี้เป็นระยะเวลาทำนี้ ไม่ต้องแจ้งซ้ำกันให้วุ่นวายแบบนี้ คนไทยทุกคนต้องทำมาหากิน และ Immigration ก้ไม่ได้เปิดเสาร์อาทิตย์ บางคนต้องลางานไปเพื่อแจ้ง ตม
      ไม่ต้องเอาระบบออนไลน์มาอ้าง ว่าทำไมไม่ออนไลน์เอาหละ หรือ ทำไมไม่ส่งเอกสารทางไปรษณีย์ ส่งเอกสารทางไปรษณีย์กว่าจะได้รับตอบกลับ 1-2 เดือน ระบบออนไลน์นี้สิ้นหวังมาก เพราะเวลามีปัญหาเจ้าหน้าที่ไม่เคยสามารถตอบคำถามได้เลยว่าทำไมเอกสารไม่ผ่าน ก็ต้องวิ่งไป ตม อยู่ดี

      รบกวนด้วยนะคะ ถ้าอยากให้ประชาชนทำตามที่คุณกำหนด ก็ควรจะพัฒนาระบบให้มันดีขึ้นหน่อย ไม่ใช่จะเอาแต่ปรับ ปรับ ปรับ แล้วก็ปรับ

      Reply
    • Steven

      In my opinion, it is simply a matter of jumped-up individuals that don’t know their ass from their elbow plus the obvious extortion, racism and lack of respect toward foreigners, and in many cases, a foreigners Thai wife, dependants and partners.

      Let’s face it, there is no need for all this ”big brother’ mentallity, and after all, what can a foreigner do in Thailand? Very little! So why shoulld the authorities be on the heels of a foreigner?

      Remainds me of the case a few years back of a retired foreigner painting a local Wat wall. He provided the paint from his own funds and out of the goodness of his heart, but was arrested and fined by Thai Imiigration . Okay, he did not have a visa, but I think we woiuld all agree that the actions of Immigration were below the belt and not called for, which reflects on many Thai Immigration officers plus rules and requlation.

      Reply
      • Paul Thomas

        Yes, it’s amazing the resources Thailand seems to have for enforcing immigration matters but the lack thereof for anything else. The lack of resources to police the roads and fine or seize the vehicles of traffic offenders who drive against the flow of traffic. The lack of resources to build or upgrade certain infrastructure, including dykes to prevent Bangkok from being inundated by the waters of the Gulf of Thailand in the future, for example. What about the lack of expressways and modern day train lines?

        However, when it comes to shooting themselves in the foot, Thailand suddenly has all the resources in the world! Perhaps the USA could look into replicating Thai immigration. There’d be no illegals left overnight!

        Reply
    • Daniel Stone

      How to kick over 30 years of FARANGS supporting Thailands economy into the dustbin,
      Thia Immigration you are living in the 21st century, not in the 1800s do the sensible thing and stop discriminating against Farangs who have supported your country

      Reply
    • Steve

      TM30
      Is a good thing
      But please not every time I leave my house to buy some bread .

      Let’s be abel to report for a TM30 once when we arrive in Thailand .
      And then leave us alone.
      We have other more importance things to do then to stand in que for hours.

      Reply
    • Mark Antcliffe

      For foreigners that are married with children, have invested money and contributed to society there could be something like a 5 year multiple entry visa in place to allow us to stay or work to provide for our families with reports to be made at a local police station or online for example. I have volunteered as a tourist police officer for for years and i have contributed so much to society over the last 10 years. Some improvements would be welcomed.

      Reply
    • Komal Krishna Agarwal

      Life will very easy if we finish 90 days reporting as we submit all documents when we apply our 1 year visa

      Reply
    • Komal Krishna Agarwal

      Live here from last 28 year work we all submit all documents when we apply 1 year visa then why 90 days 😩

      Reply
    • ziv

      where can i read terms and conditions that i must agree with?

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        Check on them and also on bottom of the website.

        Reply
    • Robert Duffy

      Fines need to be suspended until this requiation is fully understood and implemented. The Online Reporting System is NOT actually running! I went to Immigrations to voluntarily report a weekend stay with my Thai Inlaws on a Monday. The queue was over 400 people! I returned early the next day (Tuesday) and was fined 800 baht because I was late!!? I showed them the queue slip and they ignored it! I can run a red light and am fined only 500 baht. Fail to report an overnight stay with family and am fined 800 baht? Why?

      Reply
    • Larry Lohman

      Have been retired in Bangkok for 24 years own a condo have had no problems.
      A lot of receptive paper work a wait of money and time.

      Reply
    • rod

      Whilst you’re at it…the 90 Day Reporting requirement should also be abolished for those of us on a One Year Non Immigrant ‘O’ or ‘OA’ Extension.

      Reply
      • Thomas Doll

        Die TM 30 Meldung ist eine sinnlose bürokratische Vorschrift.

        Reply
    • john

      It would appear to be the case that I can move from hotel to hotel within Thailand and do not need to worry about the TM30, but if I chose to live in a house owned by my Thai wife then my movements become restricted. It would appear that she must report on my movements, with all the documentation required, every time I return from any stay away, even for one night. Why is it not O K to just register a permanent residence in Thailand to which I would return after any trip within Thailand ? That would make sense and relieve the burden on Ex Pats, their Thai spouses and Thai Immigration.

      Reply
    • Brian

      Why does the petition only speak on behalf of married, with partner and or children? Why not all inclusive with single farang who are just as affected by this recent action by immigration authorities?

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        Nothing is perfect. This is a start…The health insurance, the new checks on money are different issues.

        Reply
      • Heinz Grosch

        bin seit 12 Jahren mit meiner Thailändischen Frau Verheiratet Sie hat eine 15 Jährige Tochter diese hat noch die Thailändische Staatsbürgerschaft wie meine Frau aber wir können wegen des Hohen geforderten Geldbetrages nicht nach Thailand Ziehen was ich für Menschen Unfreundlich Befinde

        Reply
    • David Jones

      I’ve had a few family members and friends barked at by immigration for not having the right papers (who even understands still what is needed?!). If this racial targeting of law-abiding tax-paying non-Thais continues I’ll likely pull the plug, fire all the Thai people I employ and move operations to another country and will happily employ new people and pay taxes abroad.

      Reply
    • Tom S.

      If you want to get Thai authorities to react, you have to shame them over social media and they will scramble to save face. Just look at the case of the electrical wires on Sukhumvit. All that was needed was a photo posted by Bill Gates to get everyone scrambling to bury the wires.

      With this TM30 nonsense, all that’s needed it someone publish the absurd rules in a respected tourist magazine or a well-known newspaper. No need to make negative comments, just publish the rules with the intention of informing anyone who wishes to visit Thailand that it is the only (or one of a very few) tourist destinations where such a set of rules exist, and anyone planning to travel there need to be aware because the rules are being strictly enforced.

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        I understand. We all have our methods. This is ours. It is now shares and rules about articles 37 and 38 of Immigration Act are in the links.
        But rarely, in Thailand, someone does something to CHANGE THINGS. We did it. We hope to help Thailand.

        Reply
      • Steve

        Bangkok post has just done it!

        Reply
        • Robert B.

          It is not enough. The head of immigration still does not understand that it MAKES PROBLEMS AND IT IS NOT GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY. We have to continue….

          Reply
    • Me

      Will you be including the names, data and email addresses of the signers if this is submitted to the Government? If I want to remove my name from the petition how can I do that? There is no reply email to contact anyone here.

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        NO. This is a petition to show that people are not satisfied. It is there for improving things. I wrote my name on some forum and if people knew I would give their names, my name and business would be finished, terminated.

        I do it for the benefits of all expats, single or married, gay, working or not, tourists or not, I think TM28 and TM30 are old-fashioned, not efficient and pure bureaucracy. People can disagree with me (or us, because we were 50 people working on that website). People should have the right to express themselves. Alone against immigration makes us criminal, rebels, bad expats. Together, united, we have a stronger voice.

        Reply
        • alexi VD

          This is our home and great country. we need to stand strong and face this. You have my full 100% support

          Reply
    • Herman Puts

      Thailand should grant foreigners who are married to a Thai and live in Thailand the same rights as every Thai.

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        You can apply for permanent residency after 5 years of marriage under Thai law. 2 if you have a Thai child. And after 5 years of permanent residency, with conditions, you can get Thai citizenship. That does not change TM28 and TM30.

        Reply
      • John

        With respect, I disagree. Simply marrying a thai national should not earn you this right, this would open the door for undesirables the world over to marry a particular type of Thai girl and then have the right to stay. You should be able to contribute to the country in multiple ways.

        Reply
        • John Smith

          There were plenty of issues recently where an Ampur was taking tea money to sign off on fake marriages to Indians. It happens. Makes it hard for the rest of us who are legitimately married to a Thai national.

          Reply
    • Michel Savage

      Lived in Chiang Mai for 6 years. Love the country. Pollution kicked me out. The increasing value of the baht kicked me out. And, now, this mandatory insurance… For 6 years, I travelled extensively throughout the country – never reported anything, and neither did hotel owners (except one over possibly 200). These Thai regulations are insulting, inefficient, squarely stupid, and completely useless. What is it about the Thai government (society?) and foreigners? I am now back in Canada with my Thai wife, and we’re now looking at civilized countries for retirement – Costa-Rica, Spain, Portugal… but unfortunately, not Thailand anymore.

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        Insurance is not mandatory yet… not in the law. Who knows. Sorry you have left. Thanks for your comments.

        Reply
    • Boris

      Thai government created a special ‘Smart’ visa for qualified professionals, entrepreneurs and now they treat ordinary people like criminals who were just released from the prison, making them to report their location within 24 hours after changing place where they live. Even in Russia, with our ex-KGB, ex-communist bureaucrats we don’t have such rules for foreigners, despite the fact we have real problems with terrorism and we had a lot of terrorist attacks in recent years. Foreigners have to make a “registration” (notification of immigration) within 7 days (can do this even at almost any post office in the country) after their arrival in country. But nobody will bother them for the next 90 days. I have never heard that Thais are treated the same way in my country as foreigners are treated in Thailand.

      As someone mentioned previously, if some terrorist or person with bad intentions will decide to do anything bad in Thailand, they will not come and report their location in immigration office within 24 hours after they change their location.

      Who will ever want to come to Thailand, apply for investment or ‘smart’ visa and invest their time and money if they are treated in such way? I think BOI (Thailand Board of Investment) is more appropriate organisation to send this petition, not Immigration office.

      Reply
      • Paul Thomas

        You are right. Thais may possibly be treated the same way in Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam these sorts of countries, as foreigners are in Thailand. Apparently Laos makes it difficult for Thais to own small businesses in their country, hence why all the small businesses owned by foreigners are Vietnamese and Chinese run. Apparently, even westerners are able to do things in Laos that Thais are not. I’m not sure of the reasons behind this, but that’s what I’ve been told off the grapevine by Thais that know Laos well. Thais are tolerated as tourists in Laos, otherwise as large investors (like PTT) but that’s about it.

        As for the BOI, my business partner and I are looking at making a major investment in this country but at this stage, we don’t know whether to go ahead or not. Will have to see how all of this pans out.

        Businesses are actually leaving Thailand because of the poor shape of the economy. Sanyo Engineering, a Japanese company is shutting up shop end of the month, firing all its Thai staff. Given the TM30 debacle, the poor shape the economy is in and attractive policies offered by neighboring countries, I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a continued exodus over the coming months and years.

        Another worrying sign is that none of the border special economic development zones have taken off. The one in Mae Sot, Tak has been delayed indefinitely. Can’t see it going ahead when there’s a Chinese city being built on the Myanmar side that will run everything anyway, leaving the Thai side with nothing.

        Reply
        • Robert B.

          Well said sir. I concur.

          Reply
    • U.Leemann

      I have one year visa and call every 90 days.
      I find it a chicane to have to sign me when I visit with a friend in another province and spend the night with him.

      Reply
    • Lee

      Personally I will not be abiding by this law it is crazy… As a high income earner, to sit in an immigration office for a morning everytime I make aone of my regular trips away would result in a loss of tax revenue in excess of 1500 baht for the Thai governemnt and a higher amount for myself.

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        understood by the law is the law. We want to change it. Please share.

        Reply
      • Paul Thomas

        I’ve never done the TM30 but as long as I don’t need to deal with immigration for an extension, then there’s no real reason to get one done.

        Once the time comes though, I’ll be mailing in my report, certainly not going to the office. If you ever need to follow suit, mail in your report or try the online system (which barely works). I definitely wouldn’t go and sit in an immigration office for this, that’s just ridiculous.

        Reply
    • ROBERT LANG

      LIVE IN THAILAND AND WANNA HELP

      HERE SINCE MARCH 2019

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        Thanks. We would like you to share this website on your facebook, at your embassy, your chamber of commerce. We need 10,000 signatures. Sharing is free.

        Reply
    • Ingo Pfeffer

      I have one year visa and call every 90 days.
      I find it a chicane to have to sign me when I visit with a friend in another province and spend the night with him.

      Reply
    • Eddie Marty

      I tell you now, They do not care. They want the money not one can stop, A good Thirty Thousand Band.

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        Who wants the money? Things change in life. Slavery, women voting, gay marriage…. it’s normal to evolve.

        Reply
        • Paul Thomas

          Robert, indeed. Our countries evolved and so too can Thailand. We have to depart from this whole “Thailand can’t change” attitude. It knows it will be forced to, and already has evolved, perhaps against its will, over the ages. In a globalized economy there’s simply no other choice.

          Unjust laws have been changed on the basis of the people affected rising up against them.

          There are only two solutions to this situation that I see:

          1. Make some noise and petition to change the laws
          2. Leave the country and head for friendlier shores

          Staying put and accepting this just makes you look weak and if you allow your rights to be taken away like this, there’s no telling how much the government can take away from you in the future.

          Reply
    • brian robinson

      Would you like me to correct the many errors the petition contains? I cannot agree to sign it in its present condition.
      Air Vice-Marshal B L Robinson, TEFL qualified.

      Reply
    • Ivan M. Paton

      To Admin –

      What might help this cause is to do a video about this issue in Thai – with English sub-titles.
      This issue needs to be out in the mainstream media to get any real action – and to get the Thai government to rethink this issue. A petition – while a worthy first step – is not likely to get any results.
      And are there any efforts being made to engage the Thai media at all????? This is also something that I think would be very useful to help get this issue into the mainstream media.
      Do you have an organizing committee?????
      And how can we get involved and help??????

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        The head of immigration today already acknowledged problems with TM 30 as we were in Bangkok Post. We do our best. There will be a panel about immigration soon in Bangkok….We were asked, indirectly, few hours ago, to go. THINGS CAN CHANGE.

        Reply
    • Richard

      I can confirm the International School our child attends is aware of the TM30 reporting requirements and they are quite concerned about the implications it means for overnight field trips etc. Furthermore, if we are to comply with TM30 requirements then I need to tell the parents of my child’s best friend (a Thai national) that they have to report a TM30 every time my child sleeps over at their house as they live across the street but is a different province. I expect they will not not have anymore sleep overs. How can the government be so cruel? I’m signing.

      Reply
      • Paul Thomas

        If the house is across the street why bother telling anyone? Just pretend your child is staying at home as usual.

        Reply
    • TG

      Thanks to all the people behind this effort!

      Reply
    • Harald Rimanek

      I sign because I believe it is unnecessary and makes live more complicated and not solve any crime problem.

      Reply
      • Mark

        Like so many others I have a thai wife for 8 years and I am a us citizen. I still work in usa but have spent millions of baht in thailand on my wife,s farm I have a marriage visa.
        .immigration in treats me like an idiot and the new rules regarding tm30 and 90 day reporting are prompting me to stay in usa and explore more friendly places to spend my time and money..do not need the brain damage of all this nonsense..thai government wake up!!

        Reply
    • Yasuyuki HATANAKA

      อยากให้เลิกใช้ ตม.30 ครับ

      Reply
      • Paul Thomas

        เช่นกันครับ

        Reply
    • Mark weatherburn

      Very wrong that’s why Thailand is going down not popular with foreign travelers or settlers

      Reply
    • Alan

      I don’t understand why you fill in declaration card on most airlines ,which has a question about where you are staying . Can’t this be used at airport immigration check points instead.

      Reply
    • Thomas Mock

      I am be honest, if there is n change in close future I will also move to Vitnam or Singapore! I love Thailand but not to any price and law! Thailand cna not just take and nt giving anything back to forangs in return! Sorry that`s not working, than I am better off!

      Reply
    • Dr David

      This week, a friend from Denmark, who is on a 30-day entry, went to extend his stay at Jomtien. This process used to take about 20 minutes. Now, he had to wait 3 hours, only to be told that his hotel had not completed TM30 correctly. He was told the fine was 4000 baht, and to return the next day and bring a hotel representative with him. Eventually, the hotel paid the fine and he got his extension. But this system is clearly so inefficient as to be considered “unworkable”. It obviously consumes immigration officers’ time, the hotel’s time, and of course creates a bad impression for my tourist friend. Such inconveniences need to be weighed against the advantages. What are they? A cynic might see the advantage in a “hostile immigration policy”, such as was created by the former British prime minister. This would help reduce the number of foreign visitors and potential immigrants, by frustrating them. It could also help reduce the number of hotels etc. by frustrating hotel owners.

      But this view needs to be balanced against a more generous interpretation. Perhaps the administration would like a system whereby they can locate any foreigner relatively quickly.

      However, in reality, how often do they need to do this? Where are the statistics? What is the evidence? Let’s assume the system becomes 90% accurate (probably an overestimate). What then? If the authorities are looking for a foreigner, but that person does not show on the TM30 system, what do you conclude? Anyone familiar with data science can see the issue. You cannot conclude anything with certainty with such a margin of error. And the amount of energy required to maintain sufficient accuracy for each and every data point is huge.

      Trying to track every needle because one day you might need to find a needle in a haystack is a very inefficient way of managing the “problem”. It would be much better to re-frame the problem and find more appropriate solutions.

      For example, we all carry phones. If the authorities want to know where I am they can call me. The TM6 can record our phone numbers and email addresses, so we can always be found that way. A simple SMS system that warns people their visa time is up would help cut the number of overstayers.

      Permanent and semi-permanent residents give their addresses regularly, so these people don’t need to continuously report, surely.

      Of course, those with criminal intent (bad guys) will always skirt the system, so the TM30 system is completely unreliable for security issues. Passport checking at entry should refuse known offenders.

      There is a wealth of knowledge and experience within the expat community. Wouldn’t it be great if the Thai government could draw on that? I am sure many of us would donate our time and expertise for the benefit of the country.

      Reply
    • Charlie D

      Sad to see a once wonderful, welcoming country now quickly turn to this quasi communist control.
      Most long stay foreigners are law abiding, and contribute much to the economy.
      Many of us are married, have children, house, vehicles etc.
      We just want to live peacefully and yes most of us follow all the immig requirements no matter how questionable they seem.
      Now, with this new raft of pressures from immigration many long stay foreigners will be leaving Thailand.
      Who in the TH government will care?
      Good luck all.

      Reply
    • Claus

      I lived in Thailand for more than 14 years, and have Thai wife and daughter here. I understand, that there is some need of regulation for foreigners staying in the country. But since we are already doing annual renewal of our stay with quite a bit of documents involved proving our status, plus doing 90 day reporting every 90 days, then it seems like the TM30 (24 hr reporting rule) should not be needed, and will have a negative effect for all parties involved, including for the Thai Immigration Bureau.

      Reply
    • HunkeyDorey

      Thailand rapidly becoming more like old China while Chinese are now invading the World!

      Reply
    • yellow

      end 24 hour please

      Reply
    • allansson christer

      TM30 calculation.

      There are some 40 million tourists visiting Thailand 2019.
      And some hundreds of tousands expats living here.

      Lets focus only on the 40 million tourists, with only one(!) address during their stay.

      40 million tourists, mainly visiting Bangkok, Pattaya, Chang Mai and Phuket. Approximately 90% of all goes there.

      These 36 million will be reported in local Immigration office in each of the 4 popular provinces.

      Working(!) 52 weeks a year and 5 days a week, this gives around 140.000 registrations a day.
      So, around 35.000 TM30 registration at each(!) province Immigration office.

      4.300 TM30 registration per hour, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year!

      I know about the effienciy of the Immigration, they work hard, but they can´t ever never handle 4.300 registrations per hour and office.

      In real life, the above calculation, would most probably be more then double, if expats are included and all moving around, in and out of the country etc.

      With this said and with respect for the law from 1979 (how many was visiting Thailand back then), this does not work anymore.

      Khun Chris

      Reply
    • Hansjörg Allgayer

      I will reduce the issues with the immigration office.

      Reply
    • Michael

      My landlady is Malaysian. She tried to register online to file my TM30. When there was no reply after 10 days, she sent a signed proxy form to my Agent in BKK so she could help file the TM30. The agent sent all documents to Immigration, but no reply for 3 weeks. After another week she called the hotline but no information is given. Finally I went to immigration by myself but was rejected because I’m the tenant, not the owner. 6 weeks after moving in I still have no TM30.

      I don’t know what else to try.

      I’m a guest in this country and want to respect the rules. I have a Masters degree in political science and even understand why the TM30 exists and what the intention behind the immigration law is. But the public administration must also work such in a way that people are actually able to comply with the rules.

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        THAT IS GREAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT !!!
        I have more good news for you, but it will take time to change a law. Give us 6 months. Maybe more.

        Reply
        • Paul Thomas

          I concur. It will definitely take some time, probably 6-12 months. I see it happening in the not too distant future, but before it can happen they first need to discuss how it will be changed. Before that happens, either enforcement will continue or they will quietly stop enforcement or make it a bit more lax.

          Reply
    • Mike

      I have been coming to Thailand every year for 25 years. I like to visit many friends around Thailand. Now every time I visit, I have to get them to register me. This is big brother watching me like I am a child. There is no freedom of movement, no privacy, this is disgusting what they do. What and where I go for my holiday, is none of their business. This country is becoming a dictatorship. They use terrorism as an excuse, but I am sure, terrorists and criminals are not going to register their T30, so this makes no difference. 25 years I come here. But not any more. They have no respect, they just want to control and dictate. This is 2019, we have rights…

      Reply
    • Jack Chen

      Please change the laws
      I don’t want to go to immigration every time after I come to Thailand
      I have Thai Wife I hope can easy for us
      Thank u

      Reply
    • Annie Z

      I just want it can cancel ! If I come back at Friday evening or Saturday , even I want to do it, nobody working in immigration office, just 24 hrs, I will miss it so perfect!

      Reply
      • Monkanda

        They have always given a couple of days leeway on TM30 at weekends, but it is still a useless bit of bureaucracy.

        Reply
    • Xinxin

      This is a time consuming and redundant policy. I am just an international student in Thailand. I go home many times a year, but in the face of such a policy, I have to trouble a lot of landlords. My landlord is not a Thai, and sometimes I am not in Thailand. This policy makes me very difficult. I need to report within 24 hours of entry. For example, I go to Bangkok at 6 o’clock in the evening. I will go to the immigration office at this time or contact the landlord. It will take a lot of time. When I get ready, it may be very late. If I have a very important thing on the second day of entry, then I will face a fine, which is unfair. This policy is not humane at all. We like Thailand to stay. We don’t want such extra troublesome policies to affect us. I hope to be able to consider it for us.

      Reply
    • Li chi Lan

      end 24 hour please

      Reply
    • Yao

      End TM30 please

      Reply
      • Benimtor

        The very interesting things is when you do first 90 notification You also need do 24 hours report.

        Reply
    • Ford

      I can’t understand that there are other things besides making this life more complicated. This rule is boring. Even if you didn’t leave Thailand, you only need to stay in a hotel.The Immigration Bureau reported.

      Reply
    • Ford

      This provision is simply unreasonable

      Reply
    • Alex Bauer

      The following statements are not entirely correct, and they are partly just assumptions. Assumptions will not convince authorities in Thailand and will therefore not lead to any considerations or change in rules. Only facts and figures may be considered. It is this reason, why I cannot sign this petition.

      – ultimately show a massive downturn in tourism, foreign investment and the existence Thai families living with foreigners. We request this in the interests of Thailand.
      – serve to add more pressure upon and eventually become a negative influence on the Thai economy.

      Reply
    • Marie

      The owner has sent an email, but has not yet received the account name and password, and the owner is often very busy , it is difficult to contact with her within 24 hours. I hope to cancel this report. Because we have to go to the Immigration Bureau every 90 days.

      Reply
    • James

      This is not only bothering the foreigners, but at the same time bring inconvenience to the Thai landlord. If this keeps going, foreigners may not be able to rent an apartment to foreigners and who will come here for work or travel?

      Reply
      • Victor

        My landlord refused to do it. I have to get a PoA from him and I do it or I can move out.

        Reply
        • Robert B.

          That’s exactly what we are saying! It’s absurd and hurts foreigners, Thai, tourism, but immigration seems to like to fine people….

          Reply
    • Ivan

      Thank you guys for your efforts to raise this question and all your hard work.

      If Thai government want foreigners money, they should simplify immigration rules and get rid of this TM-30 form. What’s next, collar with GPS-tracker on every foreigner, obligatory white stars on clothes of every foreigner?

      Look at the Philippines! They want foreigners money and qualified professionals. You can get retirement visa if you 35 years old just by keeping $50000 in their bank ($10000-$20000 if you are over 50). Valid police clearance and health check and minor amount of paperwork. You can take all this money from a bank and invest it in real estate and still have this visa for the rest of your life.
      No 90 days reporting, no 24 hour notifications, no other repressive measures to track foreigners.

      Meanwhile, foreigners who paid 500,000-2,000,000 THB for Thai Elite Visa and treated like criminals on probation having to report their location within 24 hours.

      Reply
    • NVA

      i found a couple of typos …..it would help if you clean those up so that our petition appears well thought out and doesn’t appear to be just an outburst of anger …….which would did not….. what it is is ….

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        Yes. Reply to our email. Thanks.

        Reply
    • Jeff Reed

      I have a Thai wife and 10 year old son and lived in Thailand for 18 years. The last 4 years were a nightmare with the documentation required whenever my visa renewal came up. Immigration officers were arrogant and inconsistent with their application of the rules and the out-of-the-door queue at Jomtien immigration office could not be avoided. Last year I moved lock stock and barrel (and the wife and kid) to Cambodia…what a difference! Must say also that you people are “banging your heads against a brick wall”, it will get worse not better as the only foreigners they want in Thailand are the 30 day tourist visa ones.

      Reply
    • John Dowse

      Background: I am 73, healthy, married to a Thai, lived and worked in Thailand for just over 15 years and now retired. We have two properties that we share time in. Wife’s farm which is about 100km from the provincial capital and my condo in the provincial capital.

      Today I reported to my local Immigration Office to submit my TM47 90 day report.
      As usual, my local Immigration Office was friendly and efficient and all done in a matter of minutes.
      With that out of the way, I then sought their advice regarding three issues that have been the source of a lot of anxiety and stress, caused mainly by conflicting information (both official and unofficial) regarding these;
      TM28
      TM30
      Compulsory Health Insurance.

      I discussed my up and coming trip in Thailand and what was my understanding of reporting requirements, as follows;-
      • Saturday – drive from my wife’s farm to Suphan Buri where we will be attending the dress rehearsal of a nephew’s university graduation ceremony on the following Sunday. Stay overnight at a pre-booked hotel.
      • Sunday – meet up with a bus load of family members who had also driven down earlier that morning.
      • Sunday evening – drive to Pattaya to see an old mate who had just come out of hospital following cancer surgery. We will stay a week at a pre-booked hotel.

      From my interpretation this is likely to require;-
      • TM28 (as we will be in Suphan Buri for more than 24 hours. We haven’t yet determined how or to whom we need to submit this on the Sunday (or perhaps the Monday from Pattaya?)).
      • TM28 for our stay in Pattaya.
      • TM30 for when we return to my wife’s farm, and
      • TM30 “self report” when subsequently return to my condominium in the provincial capital. (The condo by the way is in my name only and I am the “Owner”.
      • Followed by ongoing TM30’s for every time we go to the farm and again for every time when we return to the condo.

      TM28 caused quite a bit of humour amongst the staff. They informed me the this is for a “change of address”, and I don’t think any of them had used it. Looking at the form you can surmise that it is most likely to have been for a “change of address” only but has been poorly written. It would not take much to modify this form for it to become a valid and informative document. If you delete the second line in the form title, add provision for including “my previous address” as well as “my present address” and delete the second note at the bottom, it all makes good sense.

      TM30 – my wife has registered as Owner of the farm where we spend half our time. Well, she registered via the internet a couple of weeks ago, received a confirmation email (auto generated I think), but still no User name nor password. I explained that I tried to register myself as Owner of the condo but couldn’t get past the Thai language defaults.

      The Immigration staff asked me not to register over the internet stating that there are still a number of issues with its’ stability and reliability. They said the internet registration is handled by another office unconnected to them who have shown to be unreliable, slow to pass on the relevant information and slow to respond to emails and enquiries (internally and externally).

      The staff then registered myself (for “arrivals” at the condo) and my wife (for my visits to the farm) directly into their system and issued us with the appropriate receipts then and there. I was told I can come and go between the two without having to do any other TM30 for either address unless I leave the country. A TM30 will be required upon my return though. If I don’t leave the country I will however be required to renew my TM30 at the same time I do my TM47 90 day reports and obtain receipts for both which are attached to my passport.

      Finally, the health insurance. To my relief I was told it does not apply to me as I have lived and worked in Thailand for over 15 years and this requirement covers new applicants only.

      So satisfaction all round, and it was all over in half an hour, which would have been quicker if we hadn’t enjoyed several good laughs together.

      Having said all this, I share most expats views of the amount of (valueless) reporting we have to do. Currently, and in the foreseeable future, I do, and will do, 5 trips to Immigration every year. That’s 5 x 200km trips a year or 1,000km each year. None of us know how long we will live, but based on my family history (mother 98, father 97 deceased), 4 uncles and 1 aunt in their early nineties and two brothers in their 70’s. So barring accidents or major illnesses the expectation is possible to my 90’s.

      DOES THE THAI GOVERNMENT REALLY REQUIRE AGED PEOPLE IN THEIR TWILIGHT YEARS TRAVELLING LONG DISTANCES, SEVERAL TIMES EVERY YEAR, SIMPLY TO REGISTER THE EXACT SAME INFORMATION AS THEY HAVE BEEN PROVIDING FOR 20 YEARS?

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        Thanks for your great comment. This is EXACTLY why we do this petition. Share on your facebook will, send to your friends by email, ask your wife to sign. We need signatures.

        Reply
    • Dirk

      I will travel next year to Thailand. If there are any issues with TM30 or the Forced insurance this country will never see me again.

      Reply
    • Andrew Rich

      I have lived in Thailand for nearly twelve years and now have a Thai wife and daughter. I take care of them and contribute financially towards the upkeep of her family. Now it appears that everytime we visit them in a different part of the country we have to complete a TM30. I have just returned after a visit to England with my daughter to visit my family and despite a twenty four hour round trip I am still required to see that my wife submits a TM30. It i obvious to me and my farang friends that the government do not want us in their country and every year are producing rules which make it harder for us to stay. Why aren’t they honest and just admit it ?

      Reply
    • Don

      Dear Editor, you say you don’t have time to ‘fix’ the Petition, whixh is understandable – but unfortunate. I signed it, but others will be put off. and you need numbers…what I called ‘soft power’ in a recent letter published in the Bangkok Post. A long time retiree friend, married to a very well connected Thai lady (Senator’s neice) wrote me the following:
      ”I do not feel this letter goes far enough. It is also repeating itself and can be seen to be grovelling a little at the same time, we only need to say we love the country and people once! There are also issues here with syntax and that may confuse some Thai folk who do not read English particularly well. I cannot sign the document in its current form for the aforesaid reasons”. I will suggest something positive to you, in a separate post.

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        Your second post Don….We will do much more than you think. This is first step. There were 2 translators for Thai translation. I know the English is not perfect but show me where the Thai has a mistake. 🙂
        I think you are just a troll.

        Reply
    • Don

      my suggestion: you seem to be a very well intentioned individual, doing a great service on our behalf. Altho not loaded, I’m happy to send you a few quid. Are you allowed by law to set up a new bank account (to protect yourself, name or sub-name it ‘Immigration Petition’ ..my philosophy is like that of my friend; if you are going to do it, do it right. This is especially so in a country where the you cannot allow any wriggle room for the Thai authorities’ interpretation of your (OUR) Petittion. cheers!

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        Yes, we are a allowed by law. We are a law firm, a Thai company owned by majority Thai shareholders. Nice try, didn’t work. The gofundme is finished. Website, server, translation, we even pay Facebook boosting. Nothing is cheap in this world and there is no donation asked for now. On 15th August, there is a meeting. We will see what happens.

        Reply
    • I really hate Thai Immigration and so sick of their services.

      They should know that all of unreasonable rules they made would encourage corruption. But I believe that THAI police always performing a good deed.

      Reply
    • AdExLa

      Why is it so complicated to ignore a law when it’s so stupid ? do you really fear to have to pay 2000 thb fine if they find you ?

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        No, we are not in fear. We want a better system.

        Reply
    • Chris

      I am so thankful for all your efforts put in to this issue.
      Trying to convenience a lot of my friends, both Thai and foreigner; i found out quite a lot are scared filling in form like this on Internet. Maybe not much to do about it.
      But I also found out that the main target group, actually should be Thai persons. All from hotel owwners to people renting out by airbnb and similar platforms.
      Any chanse to contact these platforms and ask for help with a link to this website?

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        We do what we can. We are exhausted at the moment. We are 2 managing the sites. I have a regular job….we have to be united. It is not good that people are scare…scare or freedom of speech? Foreigners are not citizens but can spell Thailand. Right now, some foreigners will leave, because of that. It will hurt economy. It will hurt some families. It is a heavy duty for some Thai landlords. We will meet immigration soon…. thanks for your input.

        Reply
    • Curt

      I need to make an appointment with citizen services at the embassy now their latest appointment is 10 o’clock in the morning and there’s no flight that gets me there in time to make the appointment so I need to fly the evening before stay overnight go to my appointment and then fly back.

      I went to immigration and I was told that my wife had to pay a 2000 baht fine because she didn’t report me back home because I was out of the province for more than 24 hours. I said I was never out of the province for more than 24 hours, I stayed overnight in Bangkok and I was gone less than 16 hours. She walked me over to a sign and showed me the law that said if an alien is out of the province for more than 24 hours they need to fill out a TM 30 upon their return. I reiterated that I was not out of the problems for more than 24 hours and asked her to show me the law that says you have to fill out a 1030 if you registered a hotel in another province. She just pointed at the sign again and said you have to fill it out if you’re gone more than 24 hours, which I wasn’t.

      Reply
    • Mary

      A lot of inconvenience to us!

      Reply
    • silvio falcinelli

      i’m married and have one son since 25 years, but frequenty feel unhappy for many discriminations

      Reply
    • Li shuangkun

      It is too much trouble to work at the immigration office here, I hope I can report online. Or I hope to make the yellow books easier.

      Reply
    • Jukka S.

      I have tried to sign the petition two times, but did not get any confirmation email (spam etc. checked). Where ist the problem?

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        No idea. It should work. People that sign receive an email and confirmation.

        Reply
        • Robert B.

          We just doubled checked and it does work. You must fill all categories, it will be written in RED if something is missing and confirmation will be sent by email to click and verify you are real.

          Reply
    • Ethan

      I suggest canceling. Because it’s too much trouble.

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        We think the same….

        Reply
    • ketty

      The 24 hours report is really doesn’t make any sense. Everytime when Foreigner go into THAILAND have to do this report, And its limited 24hours to report. it makes trouble and very inconvenience for Foreigner and room landlord. The online system is not available. Please stop this policy.

      Reply
    • Li Chen

      I hope I can report online.

      Reply
    • Charles D

      It would be totally fair, and just, for all other countries especially the US, EU, Aus, NZ to now enforce immediate mirror immigration rules for every Thai national in those countries.

      The entire swath of rules, regulations, financial and medical “rules” thrown at us mostly law abiding, contribiting, long stay expats and tourists in TH, to be swiftly enforced on each and every Thai in our countries.
      Let’s see how they like it.

      Reply
    • MT

      Sign me up

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        You must sign the petition below. A link is sent to your email to prove you exist. Sometimes, it goes in spam. It can take 5-10 minutes but you will get a link.

        Reply
    • guoshanshan

      Sign me up

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        You must sign yourself, you will receive a link. Check in your spam. It can take 5-10 minutes and validate your signature to petition. All is encrypted.

        Reply
    • Paul Rensonnet

      Well,so much has already been said about this TM 30 and there is not much to be added.Nevertheless I would like to leave a trace of my exasperation about it and simply hope that the West part of the word enforce the same absurd and useless regulation for Thai visitors or expats to let them know and deeply fell what is is like to be treated like dirt.They then could testify and report they own experience to their beloved leaders…

      Reply
    • Yingyi Zhang

      I think 24hours report add immigration officer’s works, make everyone nervous and it’s not a necessary manage method. So I apply for canceling it.

      Reply
    • Sieger

      Winner: My thai wife = owner of the house lives in europe, who signs TM30?

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        Ask immigration. Record their answer…. they seem to know EVERYTHING !

        Reply
    • Ashley

      It is too troublesome to handle the 24-hour report every time we return to Thailand. The customs has already got our entry records. Why do we have to go to the landlord to handle the 24-hour report every time we return to Thailand? And a lot of Thai landlord are unwilling to go to deal with, and fine landlord also do not pay. This is troubling us.

      Reply
    • ChenJialing

      取消24小时报道

      Reply
    • ty

      I agree to canceling the 24hours report. Actually is is very inconvenient for a lot of people.

      Reply
    • Grace

      Sign me up

      Reply
    • Ella

      Pls cancel this policy.

      Reply
    • gelanxin mao

      I always back my coutry , l think this is very trouble for me.

      Reply
    • Angelina

      please cancel this policy. It actually doesn’t make any sense but very inconvenience for both foreigners and Thai landlord.

      Reply
    • Dyna

      It’s not necessary for people who work or study here.

      Reply
    • Emma

      It’s too complex for both our foreigners and you immigration officers. It’ll bring you officers more workload, and nobody wants that!

      Reply
    • Maimon

      Proposed abolition

      Reply
    • hao ye

      I think 24hours report is unnecessary. It only makes immigration office crowder.

      Reply
    • Wucaihong Huang

      Cancel this policy urgently!!! It’s very unkindly for our life cuz we are not traveler and we don’t have enough free time. Especially when we want to report on the internet, the channel doesn’t work all the time.

      Reply
    • Eason

      I think 24hours report add immigration officer’s works, make everyone nervous and it’s not a necessary manage method. So I apply for canceling it.

      Reply

      Reply
    • zhang

      不要

      Reply
    • Alex McFadyean

      I am a retired male from the UK, got married last February (2018) and have always been careful regarding the law here. I just recently have had my visa renewed for another year. The changes that have been made already regarding this, scared me and my wife. We sought help regards the paperwork for the new visa, and was glad that we did. I always obey the laws of any country that I have been in and here is no exception. I have also just gotten a Thai driving licence and we then purchased a car in my wife’s name with fiance. Her parents are very elderly and do not keep in the best of health. They live in a province some 6hours away from where we are, we visited them for 10 days over the New Year and period.
      I have never heard of these forms that you speak of here, and we were never asked by the local police in that province for anything remotely like them. This now makes me very worried and scared that I could end up on the wrong side of the law here. I don’t know if our current landlady knows of this also, she has been very good with us as tenants. I am now worried that she will also need to be aware of this new situation. I am due to return to the UK for a month at the end of September beginning of October. I will be applying for the paperwork for returning back to Thailand as I did last year when I went back to the UK for the same amount of time that I intend to be away for this time. I did not have any problems with that form but this has me worried. As I am now nearly 69 years of age and I have never been used to things like this before. I always abide by the law and would hate to end up breaking the law here in regards to this. This now has me worried that whilst I understand the situation and the fact that every country has a law regarding anyone living in their country. It is all for me and my wife very perplexing. I feel like I am not wanted here in Thailand because of all the red tape and I feel that it is just going to drive people away from coming here. I worry now that is it worth all the hassle and perhaps that I should just stay in the UK and only visit once a year. That would mean the end of a marriage and more for my wife if I don’t come back from the UK as planned. We were going to go to her parents towards the end of the year on my return. As both of them are now suffering from dementia her father more so than her mother. I just don’t know what to make of all this red tape and paperwork.

      Reply
    • Xuan

      This provision is simply unreasonable. It’s time to change. To cancel TM30 is good both of government and person

      Reply
    • Chunxue LI

      I think this report rule is not realistic, because it is very troublesome to report every time you leave the country. Sometimes it is not very convenient to communicate with the landlord. So I support to cancel it.

      Reply
    • YanRong

      Good

      Reply
    • Qing

      Please cancel this policy. It actually doesn’t make any sense .Sign me up.

      Reply
    • Qing

      please cancel this policy. Sign me up.

      Reply
    • Jack Hester

      The TM20 is unworkable in countless cases. My landlord does not live in Thailand and I never met him. I have to communicate through my real estate agent; the agent acts as go between. I have no idea if or when or how long it takes for the landlord to reply after I submit my return to Thailand details from abroad; because it takes more than a week for the agent to collect my information. Submitting information to Immigration after returning from abroad within 24 hours; or even within a week or two is a nonstarter. There is no way it can be done. Why am I to be fined due to a lack of communication with a landlord I don’t even know.

      Reply
    • Zhan

      Please cancel this policy.

      Reply
    • Zhan

      Please cancel this policy and I want to online reporting system.

      Reply
    • lee

      A fair go is all I ask for , having moved over 11 years ago , invested in farm and building lands , worked in the mining industry locally, paid my taxes and added to the future of the country with my children, I am here for the long term , until I am but a puff of smoke up the chimney at my local Wat,
      As distinction goes I think there should be a leeway for others and myself that clearly showing the long term commitment to Thailand.
      Thailand is clearly my home and for myself who is still working away , when I settle in my seat on the plane the anticipation of landing in Bangkok, to say to my self I am nearly home. The country, the people, my village, my home
      and my family.
      Fair is fair , please be fair to genuine lovers and investors of this great place.

      Reply
      • Robert B.

        Nicely said.

        Reply
    • Nic

      Moved to Thailand one year ago, working in the travel industry (legitimately, all permits & visas ok) and the nature of my job bring me to travel the country basically every week, staying in hotels all over Thailand. According to this law, I should communicate to my landlord every time i leave and every time i come back… basically I would be more an annoyance than a tenant…
      Frankly speaking I rather budget the fines in my monthly expenses than spending time to be compliant with the rules, less time consuming and overall probably cheaper. Unless there are consequences in obtaining the extension of my visa and permits…

      Reply
      • john

        I doubt you’ll ever have problems with the various permits that require your TM30 to be filed and updated, money talks in Thailand more than in other places, in fact I believe they are even more happy to collect fines than handle people who try to comply with this dated, archaic law.

        Reply
    • Paul Mingay

      I think it’s demining and totally isles piece of paperwork for nothing

      Reply
    • Paul Mingay

      I think it’s demining and totally usless

      Reply
    • Richard

      Thailand’s Immigration department is difficult to deal with. The staff there have no consistency in policy knowledge or procedure. It has turned me off from wanting to live in Thailand.

      Reply
    • zhang

      Please cancel this policy.

      Reply
    • JO

      Its Making everything so complicated and creating a problem in the industry. Please stop

      Reply
    • zeng

      This provision is simply unreasonable.Please cancel this policy.

      Reply
    • Zhuoji Xiao

      Please cancel this policy which may consume a lot of time. I believe there’s is other ways out such as high tech.

      Reply
    • Louis

      Please cancel this policy. It actually doesn’t make any sense.

      Reply
    • Jacques M. Pelletier

      The wife and I moved to Thailand in 2004. We went everywhere’s, Pattaya, Bangkok, Chon Buri,and a host of other sight seeing places to visit. But not anymore. Even though we can afford it, I find it rather silly to have to report your whereabouts if you stay away from your home for more than 24 hours. Another thing I do not understand about thai immigration is why after 15 years living in the same house does an immigrant have to go to the immigration office every 90 days. Thai immigration does not have computers? That is a lot of paperwork wasted. Think of the trees.

      Reply
    • Col. Daniel Fraley

      Leaving the United States for my second home in Ubon, Thailand on 2 Oct 2019 and I am very disheartened what I have read about the TM30 reporting. I will try and comply while traveling throughout Thailand and if I can not, I must say this could be my last trip there. I am troubled that I may find my trip there very problematic.

      Reply
    • Xiaoqu Pan

      To simplify the process. It is more efficient. People will feel more welcomed in Thailand

      Reply
    • Xiaoqu Pan

      Sign up

      Reply
    • NGUYEN THANH

      I think that this policy is so bad, the government should cancel it because it does not make any sense and it consumes a lot of time for foreigners who work or study in Thailand.

      Reply
    • John

      No surprise about the meeting’s outcome, they just don’t give two shakes about expats. Things will go ahead this way until their wallet gets really hit.
      RIP this petition

      Reply
    • Rod

      Sign me up

      Reply
    • H. W

      Hallo, Randbemerkungen: Seit nunmehr 25 Jahren mit Thai verheiratet, davon ca. 19 Jahre zus. in D gelebt/gearbeitet. Nun ca. 6 Jahre an einem Stck in Th. Jedes jahr dieselbe Hausadresse meiner Frau in TH . Jedes Mal (Urlaub jedes Jahr! gleiches TM6) Nach heirat in D alles im darauff. Urlaub legalisiert und fuer mich bei den oertl. Immibueros und “Ampoehrs” mein “gelbes Hausbuch und meine “rosa Farang ID Card” beantragt….Meine frau bekam automatisch mit Heirat eine Arbeitsgenehmigung fuer D, und nach 3 jeaehriger Aufenthaltserlaubnis, eine “unbefristete Aufeth. genehmigung”.
      Jetzt leben wir seit ca. 6 Jahren immer am selben Ort, bis auf wenige Ausnahmen (Meer) und Besuchen von Familie, allein!
      Schon bei meinen ersten Th Reisen bekam ich einen Eindruck, das Auslaender willkommen sind zum Urlaub machen, also ihr Geld dalassen sollen, aber selbst nach 4-6 Wochen , gern gesehen, wieder verschwinden sollen – Das habe ich vor ueber 25 jahren schon oft gehoert so, auch aus dem Umfeld meiner spaeteren ThaiFamilie. Meine eigenen Beobachtungen ueber die Jahre bestaetigten das….Auch in spaeteren jahren die Bewegung “ThaiRak thai”, was soviel besagt wie “Thais lieben thais”, so erkenne ich fuer mich ein sehr nationalistisches Denken in dieser Aussage. Dazu meine Beobachtungen ueber die 6 jahre Leben in Th , wo zu erkennen ist, das die Thais gerne unter sich bleiben, und sie “von einem Farang (!) nichts wollen, ausser wohl……(siehe oben) Unterschiede resultieren aber z.B. Thais die Auslandserfahrung haben, oder sogar im Ausland geboren und zur Schule gingen, oder gar eine “fremde Landessprache wie z.B. auch Deutsch” fliessend koennen, revidieren oftmals meine Sichtweise, und sind schon nicht mehr “typisch Thai”, was sie mir auch bestaetigten, Ja sogar unter den “BioThais” Schwierigkeiten haben akzeptiert zu werden.(!) Wer also schon mal “ueber den tellerrand” geschaut hat, ist sehr viel weltoffener eingestellt, und nicht so “fixiert” auf die Aussage “….das ist unser Land….” Was ich oefters zu hoeren bekam…..Solche Aussagen im z.B. Bezug auf “Glabalisierung, und Klimawandel, ” Ja sogar “Menschenrechten und Gleichbehandlungsgrundsaetzen”, machten mir schon Angst….denn wenn man jedes jahr jetzt seine Aufenthaltsverlaengerung mit selbigen Papierwust einleiten muss, obwohl man verheiratet ist, und eigentlich dies schon ein “selbstverstaendliches Menschenrecht ” (UN Cata hat TH auch unterzeichnet)darstellt, wurde mir anheim gestellt, bei fehlender Rente oder Geldsumme das Land verlassen zu muessen….Ja, aber ich waere hier doch verheiratet…..Der Einwand, meine Frau arbeitet und verdient fuer uns auch, zaehlt dazu nicht, denn der Auslaender ist nur gut, wenn eben er das Geld mitbringt? So wurde auf mein Einwand lapidar, flapsig geantwortet “Ich kjoenne meine Frau , ja wieder mit in mein heimatland nehmen” Und diese Aussage sat viel ueber die “Ddenke” im Land aus. Ich meine TH sollte schon ueberlegen, was es will, und warum aktuell, sehr viele Expats, das Land verlassen (wir ueberlegen auch , Nachbarn haben auch schoene Straende!) Farangs Urlaub lieber woanders machen (Pattaya ist leer, Huahin auch….?) Ueberlegung dabei waere auch die ‘ueberteuerte ZwangsKRV” die die marode Versicherungswirtschaft wohl stuetzen soll, oder Minus ausgleichen soll, die ich niemals verurascht habe, im gegenteil Rechnungen immer akurat gleich bezahlt habe, wie es sich gehoert 90 Tage Meldung ist auch Schikane, selbst bei der jaehrl. Erweiterung immer die gleichen “Zeichnungen, wie kleine Kinder, vom WQeg zum Haus , und Photos auf dem Sofa, im Schlafzimmer abliefern zu muessen….Damit konnen die alleine schon von uns ihre Waende mit tapezieren….im 21. Jahrhundert ginge doch mehr modern, oder, auch in Th?? Denn ich bekam hier auch schon zu hoeren, wir wissen schon wo jeder sich aufhaelt, und wenn man im Ampoehr (Bezirksamt) in den Monitor blickt, ist doch alles akurat aufgelistet, nur dazu muesste man eben untereinander auch vernetzt sein, oder NUR mal ein Telefonat fuehren, unter den Aemtern?? Bei der jaehrl Erweiterung vor kurzem ging es wie einige hier schrieben auch fuer mich erstmal , das TM30 machen…..ich vermutete richtig “vor der verlaengerung 1.800 Baht Strafe” Einwaende wurden gleich wie ueblich garnicht zugelassen, geschweige wo bekommen ich eine Rueckerstattung “im Falle, das sich herasusstellt….bla bla, ist es das alles wert?? Das Prozedere sagt auch viel ueber deren Menthalitaet aus, so ist meine Thaifrau in solchen Angelegenheiten nicht hilfreich, so wurde ihr schon “jegliches Widersprechen” beizeiten garnicht erst anerzogen??? Sorry, fuer meine Sichtweise kann ich nichts, ich liebe auch meine Frau Familie und Freunde, wenige Thaifreunde…..aber………. Ich hoffe an der richtigen Adresse wird sowas auch mal ueberdacht, hoffe aber auch in die “richtige Richtung” damit es wieder bergauf ginge? Liebe Gruesse

      Reply
    • James H.

      I’m a technician. I’ve been living in Thailand for 8 years and I travel from one province to another 3 days per week. I also travel to neighboring countries twice a month. I have my own condo, so I have made a quick calculation…
      If I’m correct and since I stay in hotels when I’m not in my condo…

      … I ONLY have to fill out and submit around TWENTY EIGHT FORMS PER MONTH!

      I am very well integrated into Thailand, speak a decent level of Thai language and was taking care of my fiance and her son from a former marriage.

      It seems that Thailand is no longer inviting to any foreigners, whether we integrate, play by the rules or not.

      I have already asked for my permanent transfer to Vietnam instead.
      I will be putting my condo up for sale soon as well and yes.
      I feel sorry about my former fiancee, but I did not move here to live in a prison.

      Bye Thailand

      Reply
    • Dirk

      I have seen the discussion, only law is law and nothing more. Not convicingly for me,sorry…

      Reply
    • Mark Stevens

      The issue whether we like it or not is more about consistency across all contact points, as opposed to catching different moods and individual interpretations within immigration and / or the local police.
      The main issue though is that they have clearly not spent enough money or time developing good enough systems online or via their app (which is completely useless) to cope with what they are now requesting we do.
      A friend who is married to a government official says that ‘they’ don’t really want these digital assets to work properly anyhow because if they do they won’t be able to collect as many fines as many are keen to do.

      Reply
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    • Bob Brown

      This petition will help, but all Expats should also write to their Embassy and detail the negative issues and ask them to ‘discuss’ these problems with the Thai Govt through their channels (not with Immigration). This clampdown is causing economic and social problems for nearly all Expats, and also for all the Thai partners for those who have one (most), and for all the Thai businesses that employ or do business with them. Like most, I am married to a Thai and we have returned to Australia to avoid the problems, and unless the ‘clampdown’ changes we will only ever return for visits using a Tourist Visa – we lived there for 4 years when I had a Retirement Visa. There is no way the Thai Immigration Laws will be changed, but what can change (and did change) is the administration and interpretation of those Laws by the Immigration Department.

      IMO of all the money paid to Thai Immigration Officials by Expats/Tourists it is probable that only a percentage of that actually goes into official revenues, and that is why some Immigration Officials/Offices have clamped down so hard and why they refuse to acknowledge the problem and will not change (and of course for all it is ‘face’). But perhaps other parts of the Thai Govt will see the points raised by the Embassies and things like this Petition, and they will seek changes in the way the Immigration Department administers and interprets the Immigration Laws for economic and social reasons.

      Reply
    • Jerry Chin

      I’ve been retired here in thailand for about 23 years. anniversary date sept 3. I was seriously thinking of depositing the 800k baht into my bank account here. but after reading all the comments, I’ve decided not to. need to make plans to depart asap as I have only 4 months to move. I’m a little disappointed. but hey. it’s not my country. I am only a guest here. need to respect their decisions and move on. had a great time. bye. thank you for the happy memories.

      Reply
    • Nicholas Statman

      I don’t know whether it’s just me or if everybody else experiencing problems with your blog.
      It seems like some of the text in your posts are running off the screen.
      Can somebody else please comment and let me know if
      this is happening to them too? This could be a problem with my
      internet browser because I’ve had this happen before. Appreciate it

      Reply
    • french farang

      hi everybody,,
      after spending 30 years in this wonderful country that I love so much, I’ll tell you a secret the only difference between a good guy and a bad guy for Thais is at least 30 million baths
      cordialy,of course !
      chok di

      Reply
    • Otto Matern

      Hallo Leute was regt Ihr Euch auf, das TM28 ist noch viel schlimmer da kann man ja gar nicht länger in Thailand verreisen! Habe keine Lust mehr dazu.
      Thailand wird immer mehr zum Überwachungsstaat
      Ich unterschreibe nicht, weil diese Seite bestimmt 100% überwacht wird

      Reply
    • David

      I have signed this petition and sincerely hope that it is taken seriously by the Thailand government. The TM30 is conveying a message that we are not welcome in Thailand. I have personally invested over 40 MB into the Thai economy. I still need to report every 90 days and apply for a visa every 12 months. Other countries in the region are seen as more welcoming and I hope that someone considers the wider impact of these policies on the Thai economy.

      Reply
    • bowlandbone

      When I originally commented I seem to have clicked the -Notify me when new comments are
      added- checkbox and now every time a comment is added I receive four emails with the same comment.
      There has to be a way you can remove me from that service?
      Cheers!

      Reply

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